network cabling question

Tech Support Help Desk Forum
HangOver
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Delray Beach

network cabling question

Postby HangOver on Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:06 pm

i need to move my u-verse modem. for some reason they put it in the garage and that's dumb. so i called att and they want $149.99 to send out a tech to move the box. that = dumber. i can do it myself i'm just lazy. here's the thing. the place i want to put it is out of reach for the wire coming into the house. now i could splice it of course but i've heard that can degrade the signal. so i was looking at these coupler things. question is, do they work or is it the same basically as splicing the wire? we're talking about an additional 50ft or so. probably closer to 30ft. can i just use one of those couplers and another network cable to relocate the modem?

coupler

glitch
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1817
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Miami, FL.

Re: network cabling question

Postby glitch on Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:46 pm

You will definitely loose signal strength, will it be enough to affect speed? hard to tell. best thing would be to find a box of cat6 cable and make a longer cable.

[Creep]-Tyrant
 
Posts: 1833
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:47 am
Location: The Armpit of North Carolina

Re: network cabling question

Postby [Creep]-Tyrant on Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:48 pm

I've been using 2 of those couplers for over a year now to make my assorted lengths of random cables reach my son's room. Haven't had any problems with them whatsoever, no packet loss,no lag, nothing that would make me think they are causing any problems. The 2 couplings I use are on the same feed to my son's room so that is twice the chance for them to cause a problem, and as I said, we've had no issues whatsoever, and it's combining 2 25ft. cables and one 12ft. cable for a total of 62 feet if that information is of any use to you.

HangOver
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Delray Beach

Re: network cabling question

Postby HangOver on Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:33 am

glitch wrote:You will definitely loose signal strength, will it be enough to affect speed? hard to tell. best thing would be to find a box of cat6 cable and make a longer cable.


i wonder if i could get access to where the cable comes from and just switch it out. i have bulk cable so i could make my own run as long as i need ...

[Creep]-Tyrant wrote:I've been using 2 of those couplers for over a year now to make my assorted lengths of random cables reach my son's room. Haven't had any problems with them whatsoever, no packet loss,no lag, nothing that would make me think they are causing any problems. The 2 couplings I use are on the same feed to my son's room so that is twice the chance for them to cause a problem, and as I said, we've had no issues whatsoever, and it's combining 2 25ft. cables and one 12ft. cable for a total of 62 feet if that information is of any use to you.


this is good to know. :)

zel
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Naples, FL

Re: network cabling question

Postby zel on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:47 am

Lex could set it straight real quick but since he hasn't seen this yet here's my 2 cents:

I understand ATT uses VDSL for their U-verse product. I'm not sure if they they run the bonded version or not, bonded just means 2 pairs (4 wire). You should have a grey box outside your house somewhere called a NID(Network Interface Device). This is basically the demarcation device where the phone company says "We stop here unless you have an inside wire contract". Thats why they want to charge you an extra 150 to move it. Anywho... at the NID you should have a telco side and a user side. You should be able to open up your side with a flathead/phillips screw driver.

If you pop it open and it's fiber fed and all that jazz the coupler should cause no problems since its a short run anyhow.

If you pop it open and its just wiring then it really depends on your cable distance to the DSLAM/Concentrator. Adding a little attenuation with a coupler like that might drop your margins enough to cause problems if you're already out pretty far. VDSL has a very steep drop in bandwidth once you get close to it's limit. I saw a nice chart once outlining the comparison of distance vs. available bandwidth a while back but I can't find it now :( The good news is you can just run a new drop to the NID and replace the old cable without any loss if you want to. The NID is there for that very purpose and also so you can isolate phone trouble. Inside the NID you should have little splice modules where one side is the incoming cable from the phone company and the other side is the cable to your house. The modules inside can vary from telco to telco but it's usually 1 pair per module and you may see an RJ-11 jack with a plug in it. This is a test/demarc point and you can unplug it to take the house wiring out and plug a wired phone in for quick testing to see if the problem is inside or outside the house. You modules may or maynot have them. If you have 2 little modules in there or if you see 2 pairs going into 1 module and you decide to rerun make sure when you rerun it to wire the new drop accordingly, if it's bonded VDSL you will need both pairs. You can use good ole cat5 just make sure you snip off unused pairs instead of wrapping them up in a coil since coiled up wire actually acts like a coil, and coils resist a change in voltage which is what any signal basically is. Do not use straight cable, it must be twisted pair, straight cable will degrade the signal very very quickly.

It should look something like this.
This one looks like its using the old yellow/black/green/red straight station wire, which is bad for DSL signal, but you can see the splice modules there.

Anyhow hope that helps.

HangOver
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Delray Beach

Re: network cabling question

Postby HangOver on Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:59 pm

here's what the box outside looks like. the cable on the right (with the green and white wires connected) is the cable that runs into the house for the modem and i'm assuming the blue and white cable is the source coming from att. so i'll i'd need to replace that green and white wire with my own run? is that connector reusable or am i gonna need to replace it somehow?

[ img ]

zel
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Naples, FL

Re: network cabling question

Postby zel on Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:48 pm

Yes, looks like you got the cables figured out. The connector is reusable it just crimps down the cable into the splice is all. You flip it up, pull the old one out, put the new ones in, flip it back down. Kinda like those low voltage lights people use to light up the drive way where you just lay out a cable and the light connector just bites into the cable and you can move them around and reuse them. That thing may be filled with a silicon gel to prevent water intrusion and corrosion so don't worry if you see something in there, that's normal.

Also you notice someone wound the excess cable backwards in a spiral like that? that's generally a bad idea. It's not really bad cause they didn't make a tight coil so its prolly no big deal and even a tight coil isn't usually too bad but on the whole it contributes to signal degradation since high freq. signals create a small EMF field (that's why we twist pairs, to prevent those EMF fields from going very far and causing crosstalk to other pairs). When someone coils it back onto the cable all tight that emf field will induce a voltage into that coil, as the voltage from the source drops the emf field in the coil will collapse inducing a voltage back to the source and attenuating the signal. Anyhow, its just best to snip it off or fold them back straight, not wrapped.

[GWR]Droogan
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:14 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: network cabling question

Postby [GWR]Droogan on Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:59 pm

When I see that picture all I can do is marvel at the sheer amount of porn that can fit through such little wires.

zel
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Naples, FL

Re: network cabling question

Postby zel on Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:48 am

[GWR]Droogan wrote:When I see that picture all I can do is marvel at the sheer amount of porn that can fit through such little wires.


Then you'd shit if I could post a pic of how many of those little wires I have here at my office and how much porn must be FLYING through them all... lol

Reminds me of a encounter I had when I first started working here. I was still training and I was mostly shadowing the CO tech and we had a whole cabinet lose it's internet feed. It was a rare ethernet over fiber to the curb setup and it was taking a while. The cabinet is hidden behind a bunch of bushes and out of no where some customer starts yelling at us "ARE YOU THE GUYS THAT DISCONNECTED MY INTERNET!!!" so being the nice guy I am I run interference to let the other guys work and explain to the man hey, it's not just you, there's a few hundred people down and we should have it fixed soon to which he responds "Ohh, well, its too late i have to go to work now" and he storms back to his car and drives away and meanwhile all we could think was "damn, he must have been downloading some good porn when it cut out."

-PC-Taishar
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA

Re: network cabling question

Postby -PC-Taishar on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:07 pm

I would first ask the question WHY do you want to move it? He probably put it in the garage so that you could connect all your rooms to it. All the coax in my house runs to a box in the garage, the house was also wired with CAT5. The two junction boxes are about 5 feet apart. Ideally everything would end there cable, internet, phone(if anyone had it anymore) etc. If your house was not prewired with coax and cat5 in each room, thats a different matter.

HangOver
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Delray Beach

Re: network cabling question

Postby HangOver on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:02 am

-PC-Taishar wrote:I would first ask the question WHY do you want to move it? He probably put it in the garage so that you could connect all your rooms to it. All the coax in my house runs to a box in the garage, the house was also wired with CAT5. The two junction boxes are about 5 feet apart. Ideally everything would end there cable, internet, phone(if anyone had it anymore) etc. If your house was not prewired with coax and cat5 in each room, thats a different matter.


my opinion is that it was put in the garage because that was the easiest for the tech. there is no junction box there or anything. it just sits there. the house IS wired with coax but not anything for network. it was built in 1990. i COULD wire it up pretty easily but i'm only gonna be here ~1 year so it's not worth the effort. i'm just gonna move it into the computer room and be done with it :)

zel
Elite Member
Elite Member
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Naples, FL

Re: network cabling question

Postby zel on Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:09 pm

Most houses don't get wired for network anyhow, even newer ones. Mine is 2007 and no network and although the phone jacks are cat5 they're daisy chained, this method is common because its quicker during the build instead of home runs but negates use for networking. Only builders who use that as a selling point do it to compete in the housing market but most will simply daisy chain the jacks because its a lot quicker and you can get the electrician to do that while he runs the power lines. Builders will cut cost anywhere they can man, its just how it goes. If there was no owner before the build (in other words, an investor built it or its a deed restricted community) then there is no one to make sure shit really gets done right because there is no one present who will end up in that house.


Return to Tech Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron