B/C of the shootings...

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-PC-Taishar
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B/C of the shootings...

Postby -PC-Taishar on Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:41 pm

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Just because I know the shooting is more fodder for anti gun enthusiasts, I would like everyone to TRULY ponder what this is saying.

zel
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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby zel on Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:22 am

Yupp, it already is fodder. I think they were terribly lucky actually. The guy had bombs all over his apartment. When you consider what he wired up his apartment with it seems fairly obvious he could have just blown that theater up and killed much more than 12 people.

I had read in one of the articles that police arrived in about 90 seconds once the shots started going off, freakin fast, and still he was done before they got there and waiting by his car in the parking lot. I respect that job, it's a tough one, but you have to protect yourself because shit goes down in seconds, not minutes.

Like this guy here:



On a side note, hand gun sales went through the roof over there now, people are scared copy-cat shootings might occur like back when the school shootings went down.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby -wicked-toon-X on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:21 am

that guy makes no sense. he tells the police he has the place set to explode? after killing all those people. just makes no sense. didn't use any of the home made explosives. it's just odd.

maybe he has shit set to blow later on like in that movie that came out recently.

i thought colorado was also one of those gun states where tons of people carry already. that's going to get interesting.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby HangOver on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:35 am

just like 9-11 this was an inside job. the government WANTS/NEEDS the people to DEMAND we remove our 2nd amendment rights. so they set up these "random" acts of violence involving guns and the ignorant sheep just get in line.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby kelston on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:05 pm


zel
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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby zel on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:26 pm

AFAIK Colorado gun laws are some of the most lax in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Colorado

I mean open carry without a permit and any areas where it is not allowed must have a sign posted, pretty different from most states.

I imagine for a while to come people will be using their rights to carry in colorado.

I dunno if i subscribe to conspiracy but this guy definitely is odd. I read that the bombs were legit but it's still pretty early so maybe they'll find out they were mock-ups. And why wire all that up and then tell the cops? maybe he felt he killed enough people and the bombs were only there if he got shot down early on? this guy is really fooked thats all i know.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby kelston on Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:19 am

Of the developed countries that don't have something fucked up going on (arguably), the US has like the highest deaths by firearms and is the answer really to give everyone guns? Srsly? Are you hoping that hard to be an hero or is there just some messed up little boy fantasy in your head that you're actually Rambo and if the Redcoats came back one day you're going to pull out your semi-auto pistol and single handedly hold them off and get all the ladies because you saved democracy? What the shit?

Why is this a thing? You're not a well regulated militia. You're one guy. You're not the 2nd amendment. What the shit?

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby HangOver on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:14 am

kelston wrote:Of the developed countries that don't have something fucked up going on (arguably), the US has like the highest deaths by firearms and is the answer really to give everyone guns? Srsly? Are you hoping that hard to be an hero or is there just some messed up little boy fantasy in your head that you're actually Rambo and if the Redcoats came back one day you're going to pull out your semi-auto pistol and single handedly hold them off and get all the ladies because you saved democracy? What the shit?

Why is this a thing? You're not a well regulated militia. You're one guy. You're not the 2nd amendment. What the shit?


someone doesn't understand the meaning of the 2nd amendment.

zel
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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby zel on Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:07 pm

The fact you're using a comedy clip to "prove" your point tells me I can't take you seriously. Then by coming in here sideways and insulting, belittling, and stereotyping everyone who doesn't agree with you tells me you're a child and since you're not my child i won't bother trying to edify you.

Did you really expect to win anyone over or was it the whole point of your argument to come in here make yourself feel good by insulting everyone? I mean really, that's how you talk to people all day? It would be a wonder that anyone would want to have a conversation with you.

Soon as I saw that clip I figured he was probably going to troll soon after.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby -PC-Taishar on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:13 pm

It's kelston I'm surprised anyone even reads his posts anymore

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby kelston on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:30 pm

zel wrote:The fact you're using a comedy clip to "prove" your point tells me I can't take you seriously.


The "comedy" clip is the most concise and probably most truthful manner of stating the base argument. You could choose not to take it seriously (the thread already started as a troll, and then holy shit shock at counter troll). Someone posted a video of some rando old guy shooting wildly at robbers as the proof guns should be everywhere. This is supposed to make me feel safer? That's a thing? That feels more like a white privilege thing. If it was a black guy randomly shooting at people that'd be black on black violence and dismissed rather than lauded as heroism.

But seriously though, statistically, of the developed countries the US has nearly double the deaths per 100,000 people of the next first world country (Finland). Why is the argument for lessening this problem is giving guns to more people? Why is having a gun in the US so much a thing to the level of near fanaticism?

Sure, the 2nd Amendment, great. Awesome. It's mentioned I don't understand it. Does anyone? Did people just conveniently delete the militia portion? Is the NRA a well regulated militia? Are people at gunshows well regulated militias? Is the fear of the government implementing martial law in the near future a thing that i'm not actually aware of? Are the people who own guns and CCW licenses the people i'm realistically supposed to trust to band together to protect us from the Army if they wanted to take over? This is the point of the 2nd Amendment isn't it? So a citizen militia could prevent the circumstances leading up to the Revolutionary War. To hold the government in check. Is this a thing? Because this really seems absurd to me unless you're going to push really hard for civilian tanks and civilian assault rifles.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby -PC-Taishar on Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:37 pm

Against my better judgement, I'm going to engage the moron.

First off the thread did NOT start as a troll. I asked people to seriously consider what the picture was stating. It says that evil people are going to do evil (substitute evil with whatever term you feel comfortable with: criminals, assholes, gangbangers, whatever it doesn't matter). YOU CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH THEM OR DETER THEM FROM THEIR INTENDED COURSE. However, a well-intentioned person with a gun can either deter them, or stop them. I'm no hero, but if I was packing while in the theater with that asshole, I guarantee he would not have killed nor injured as many as he did. Period. No questions asked. It's a matter of common sense. He's killing innocent people and endangering me. I'm going to shoot him. And I'm a good with pistol, very good.

Secondly. It wasn't some random old guy no more than your post was some random comedy clip. Using debasing terms like that to try and belittle his argument is childish and ineffective against intelligent people (and with the exception of you and maybe a few others, the community here at wicked qualifies as intelligent). This man was defending the innocent from those that would use force to have their way. This is the EXACT reason we have the second amendment. Otherwise we're a bunch of sheep.

Third, our gun fatalities are so skewed because America has a lot of assholes. It's fact. I hate to admit it, but it's the truth. Guns don't kill people. Ignorant assholes do. How many stabbing deaths or other physical violence deaths are there in the US? Should we ban knives? How bout baseball bats? Rocks? A buddy of mine made a facebook post that said "In a world without guns the man with a baseball bat with a nail driven through it is king" the jist of the argument is that weapons will always be available. And those that wish to do violence to others will use whatever weapons at their disposal to carry out said violence.

Fourth, in Switzerland nearly 1 in 2 people owns a gun. They have a citizenship of responsible gun owners and a legal system that doesn't cater to criminals. They have gun violence... statistically speaking it's incredibly low.

Lastly,
Is the fear of the government implementing martial law in the near future a thing that i'm not actually aware of?

With the current administration, I would say that's not too far off the mark, but realistically no. But that's not to say in the future it won't happen. A well armed citizenship is a major deterrent to any sort of fascist government control (thank goodness our founders recognized this). Our military is having a hard time 'winning' the war in Afghanistan because every podunk asshole has an ak-47. And most of the time they SUCK at shooting them but having every house be a potential firefight makes it hard to take control of an area and keep it. So yes, if the Army decided to invade the US in your asinine assumption, yes, those arms wielding patriots (mostly who do NOT suck with their weapons) would be a very large hindrance to any sort of hostile takeover. You prove your ignorance with the tank statement. Tanks are useless in a guerrilla war. Just ask the USSR (oh wait those socialists don't exist anymore), tanks didn't do much for them in Afghanistan.

Go troll elsewhere.

zel
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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby zel on Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:36 am

"White privilege thing", I just can't take that seriously. What exactly are you trying prove by saying that other than trying to pull the race card to try and validate your view?
Here's some facts taken from Bureau of Justice Statistics:

"Based on data for the years 1976-2005 -

Blacks are disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and offenders. The victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than those for whites. The offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher the rates for whites."

And that is for homicide overall, irrespective of firearm use. So whose fault is it black people are linked to crime? Really, what exactly were you trying to point out with what you said and how does it actually support your view? I mean apparently people assume it because statistically you'd be correct more often than incorrect.
Source: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/hmrt.cfm

English citizens can own guns. Yes it gets stricter for them every year but none-the-less private citizens own firearms over there so this whole myth of "English people don't have guns" is really ignorant. Over the past few years their homicide rates due to violent crime has started to go down but back in the 90's they were going up and up and in 2003 they hit a large peak and that whole time they had very strict gun laws. Maybe, just maybe, homicide and gun laws aren't quite as tied together as people make them out to be.

Also the comedy clip conveniently ignored non-firearm related homicide, the point being that when lacking guns people found other ways to kill so the per capita murder rates weren't quite as pronounced as your comedian made them look which is why i believe that the real cause of the US having higher rates is just like Tai said, Americans are more ruthless than the English and when two ruthless people clash, it gets ugly quick. I remember in Tampa the road-rage was so horrible that some guy snapped, grab his hunting crossbow from his trunk, chased down a guy and when the guy pulled over to see what was up the guy shot him with the crossbow, killed him. Hell I once came along side a guy that was driving so angry you could SEE the crazy in his eyes as he drove like a maniac. One thing i do not miss about Tampa is the amount of certified "crazy" you can find.

Here is a nice study, with numbers and such: http://www.saf.org/journal/16/thefailedexperiment.pdf

Yes, that's a thing, and asking that repeatedly isn't fooling anyone. I get the feeling you use that saying a lot in your arguments.

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby Toede on Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:28 pm

Kelson, going back to what you said earlier about deaths per 100,000. Yes the U.S has three gun homicides per 100,000 people. That is the most in the world, I wish there was a statistic on how many lives were saved per 100,000 people because of guns. Would it be more than 3?

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Re: B/C of the shootings...

Postby zel on Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:27 am

to put that in prespective, here are some 2010 rates for other things.
Rates per 100,000
Vehicle Accident Deaths 10.65

Unintentional injury deaths 38.4

Unintentional fall deaths 8.1

unintentional poisoning death 10.3

suicide 12

Prescription OD was at 12 in 2008, can't find the 2010 info, bulk of them being pain killer abuse.


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