Honda Civic power?

Living life a 1/4 mile at a time
zel
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Honda Civic power?

Postby zel on Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:39 am

I was just jumping randomly around the internet (yea i do it all the time, really. When I found this...

http://www.modacar.com/

hmmm, actually i stumbled directly into this: Fuse Box covers

Just look at those prices for a fuse box cover!

if you really want a laugh, read the description for the replacment radiator caps and then take a look at the $55 oil caps. Not to mention the creame de la crap, the Type-R badges.... to quote: "Create a customized look in minutes by installing one of these "Civic Type R" emblems."

cutom?! custom would imply that someone made it themselves and that it is somewhat original... Type-R badges create custom looks? are you joking? if anything they create that tired old "i wanna go fast but i would rather only look fast" stereotype everyone likes. custom my ass. and at these prices, they could actually make performance upgrades, i mean jeez, a new door panel is like, 450 bucks, what so wrong with the original one that you need to spend almost 500 bucks for new "sport" ones that do nothing to increase your speed?

some of the showcased civics actually have some power which is nice to see every once in a while.

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civic guys, I'm sorry. ..

Postby DarkStorm on Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:05 pm

ahhhh yes... the fabled rice dream. its funny that you bring this up. I frequent is300.net and the acura/honda boys have this odd tendency to show up and call my car a "carolla" and then put a 6 foot wing on theirs. Now, I don't mean to offend any honda or acura owners as I have owned both ('91 prelude and a '90 legend), but fuck, they make enough aftermarket "look fast but in reality slow you down" parts its ridiculous. The quantity of civics running around here in dc that are 100% rice is astounding.

I've seen a lot of shit come from civic owners. Let's do the reality check. 90% of the guys in civics have the 127hp 1.7 litre engine (that's crank... about 95hp to the wheels if we are "nice" to their "rice") and about 5% have the 160hp 2.0 litre engine. The rest all have the 115/117 1.7 litres or 85 hp motors! ! ! Remember, manufacturers list power at the crank... you can typically take away 20% to figure how much goes to the ground.

Ok ok ok.. so there are some fast civics. They have all had engine transplants and turbos added. There are some people as dedicated to rice as I am to actually going fast. I hunted around for some "fast" and "streetable" civics. Here's a short list for ya:

"Rice is not a car, its an attitude" - bwhahahahahahha
all these mods and no numbers... - rice rice baby
225hp @ 12psi??? - I wonder if it would break 300hp @ 30psi? (they mention the another $1000 worth of addons required to get this number)

some performance mods
99-00 Civic Si HO Supercharger Systems - only numbers claimed were on the last kit @ 277hp (not rwhp).
"Rule the streets in your neighborhood" - uhm... if 220hp rules the streets, then I am god!


I found a lot of turbo civics out there, most boasting an average 60rwhp gain! ! ! The average turbo kit was $3500 not installed. Probably another $1000-2000 installed with tuning (16-20 hours labor @$65/hr + dyno time). with their biggest engine that puts them between 220-260hp at the CRANK! ! ! ! bone stock mustang gt or 350z will EASILY CRUSH all of these cars. I don't know if you've looked at the prices on new civics vs. new mustang/z, but here's a quick breakdown (the fwd/rwd/awd considerations are not taken into account here):

lower hp cars (these prices do NOT include the RICE!)
'03 civic EX - $15 @ 115hp
'03 Lancer - $16k @ 120hp
'03 dodge neon R/T - $16k@150hp
'03 civic si - $19,400 base price @ 160hp
'03 prelude - discontinued
'03 camaro = discontinued
'03 Tiburon - $18k @ 170hp
'03 Sentra SE-R - $17k @ 175hp
'03 Acura RSX - $23k @ 200hp
'03 Eclipse GT - $21k @ 210hp
'03 Mazda 6 - $21k @ 220hp
'03 WRX - $24k @ 227hp

higher hp cars
'03 Mustang GT coupe - $24k @ 260hp
'03 Mustang Mach 1 - $28k @ 305hp
'03 Mustang SVT - $33k @ 390hp
'03 350z - $26k @ 287hp

ok, so there's a pretty good price difference in the low hp/ higher hp cars... let's do some quick math

rough turbo priced estimates
si + turbo = $23-26k ~ 260hp
'03 EX + turbo = $19-22k ~ 200hp

So, for about the same money, you could have a car that goes considerably faster than a stock civic, and most faster than a turbo civic when you get it and has a warranty. Not to mention the new z and the stang have almost unlimited potential with the powerplants they have. There are plenty of other cars with much bigger pricetags and similar low hp numbers, but then they don't claim to be "fast" cars and people typically don't treat them as "rice".

okay, so there's a $5k and a $7k difference in prices here, but you get a 65-75% power increase and that's with the stock engines. It would take a lot more than that in a civic to outrun one of these cars and then you still have a civic. imagine what you could do with a couple extra bucks.

The short version is that civics are beaters. They are econoboxes designed to go from point a to point be with maximum economy and minimal "fun". The "sporty" si is slow as piss and no matter how many "Type-R" badges you put on one, they will still be slow.

In the event enough money is invested to get a civic up to par with a "performance" car, you might as well have spent the money on a performance car.

As far as racing is concerned. . . front wheel drive cars do not turn very well. This is a fact. There are no questions. Civics/honda's in general, do NOT COME IN AWD trims (except the crv and the passport I imagine).

Long story short... 14+ 1/4mi times are nothing to brag about. 13's are better, but not even close to what would be considered a "fast" car. Fast and the furious didn't even start this revolution, the revolution created that movie.

If people want to go fast, buy a car designed to go fast and perform well under power and speed. Go drive a civic and tell me its a "performance" car. ha ha ha. . ..

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Postby Ganja on Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:17 pm

Mitubishi Lancer only 120 hp stock?

Jeez I thought it had more power even at stock,I know the rally modded verions ownz for sure but stock I had no idea was so low

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Postby DarkStorm on Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:49 pm

Ganja wrote:Mitubishi Lancer only 120 hp stock?

Jeez I thought it had more power even at stock,I know the rally modded verions ownz for sure but stock I had no idea was so low


game, set and match. I'm sure that if you were actually interested in buying a lancer, you would do a little bit of research and realize that yes, for many many thousands of dollars you can turn it into a screaming machine, but really, why not just buy a screaming machine and have a nice peppy car with a warranty that's not ricey?

DarkStorm
 
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Postby DarkStorm on Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:13 pm

I almost forgot the pictures I found.. lucky you guys

[ img ]
[ img ]
and of course one of their monsterous dynos
[ img ]

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Postby Sol405 on Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:47 pm

I never understood the rice boy cars. We have a shop near our house and they love Cavaliers, Civic, etc.. And I have noticed a lot more skanky girls with big hair getting involved. :/

I have a 2002 Acura RSX type-s, but I would never rice it out. I got new tires and thats the only updating I will do. Figured if I am going to race these guys, I will take out the Trans Am Ram Air and show them some power.

-wicked-toon-X
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Postby -wicked-toon-X on Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:57 pm

they are cheap, really cheap used.. hehe

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Postby elah on Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:35 pm

well to contradict most of you, actually hondas can dip. look at there hp/weight ratio. i've got an uncle who is building a honda civic to race.(superstreet division non modified < 2.0L) . without any internal mods (ie: pistons heads,etc) just valve springs, shaved off flywheel and intake, headers, chip lightweight proformance belts and pulleys NO POWER STEERING AND AC etc you better believe that car is going to dip. might not have 300+hp but you can a competition with some of the heavyer cars with more hp.


no offence to those who drive hondas with the following proformance parts...
oversized spoiler, high wattage hyper white/blue lights, them little windsheld washer leds, intake filter, and excust. you wanna drive a car drive one, you wanna drive a race car, take the AC out, take out the power steering, take off that wing until you have < 200hp and NO ur intake filter will not make your civic faster then the mustang gt next to you at the light.

i dont drive a honda or a car sports car to put in that way. when i really think of it if i have to let go of my truck for a 2 seater i wont do it. i like being over people plus i feel safe when it starts poring and all i do is flip the 4WD stick and i'm just cruising without worryin about hydroplaining. i can carry 5 heads plus best of all i can tow =)[/b]

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Postby Ganja on Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:14 pm

Rally cars arent rice!!!
rally ownz j00!!!

zel
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Postby zel on Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:55 pm

elah, following your suggestion I did some research on power to weight ratios

Here are specs for the Civic Si compared to common sports car, the mustang. several different versions of it. These are all stock numbers from the manufacturers website.

2003 Mustang - 3114lbs - 190Hp - 220ft/lb Torque
2003 Mustang GT - 3273lbs - 260Hp - 302ft/lb Torque
2003 Mustang Mach1 - 3465lbs - 305Hp - 320ft/lb Torque
2003 Honda Civic Si - 2744lbs - 160Hp - 132ft/lb Torque

Ok so now we take the curb weight, and divide it by the horsepower. What this does is shows you how many pounds each horsepower has to carry. So the lower the number, the better.

2003 Mustang - 16.4lb/hp
2003 Mustang GT - 12.6lb/hp
2003 Mustang Mach1 - 11.4lb/hp
2003 Honda Civic Si - 17.2lb/hp

hmm, well, thats odd, even the CHEAPEST mustang has a better power/weight ratio. i mean seriously, i thought that at least the regular mustang would be worse in a power/weight ratio comparison. Anyone know of a better formula for calculating power to weight ratios? I've looked on http://www.howstuffworks.com and in explaining horsepower they use the same method i did (except they did it in reverse so higher was better, but the numbers were like, 0.048, i figured whole numbers would be easier to compare.)

Don't forget that while you are modding that Civic Si and adding these performance parts you are adding weight and therefore affecting the power to weight ratio.

but i dunno, these are just numbers of course, you can infer all you want from them of course all in all i think people should get cars they feel comfortable and confident in. Not a car and try to make everyone notice you, ohhh yea, and stop lowering your cars and adding ground effects so that you have a ground clearance of 1.2 inches.... you're pissing me off going over the speed bumps in my apartment complex at 1 foot per hour, i'll just follow you to work and set your fucking car on fire.


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