Which way are you conservatives leaning.

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-PC-Taishar
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Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby -PC-Taishar on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:15 am

So this isn't really for you Obama fanboys. I'm wondering which of the candidates the conservatives around here are leaning towards (all three of us). I liked Perry, despite some downfalls. I REALLY like Ron Paul he's got some crazy ideas, but his platform stands for REAL change, not the I wanna win an election catch phrase kind of change. I would go so far as to say he's revolutionary. I don't expect many of his ideas would get ANY support, but I'd be willing to support ANYTHING different from what we've gotten the past 2 decades.

It looks as if we are going to have to choose between Romney and Santorum. I don't really like either of them they are both closet liberals. At least Romney is a fiscal conservative and knows how to run a business. So between the two, I'd pick him.

Obama voters can post too, if you can keep it to a legitimate choice, and not defending whichever one will be the easiest for Obama to beat.

awp-killer
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How is Santorum a closet liberal? He's so far to the right on social policies that he's ready to fall over. Romney used to be moderate, but he's been running for the republican nomination for 5 or 6 years now, in which time he's made a hard turn right and made a lot of promises to conservatives. While I understand why conservatives think he is a closet liberal, I don't see him being all that moderate.

zel
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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby zel on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:10 pm

I'm going to go by the pirate code and vote for myself.

HangOver
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they're all worthless carbon copy politicians. until we overthrow this corrupt and useless government nothing will ever change.

-PC-Taishar
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awp-killer wrote:How is Santorum a closet liberal? He's so far to the right on social policies that he's ready to fall over. Romney used to be moderate, but he's been running for the republican nomination for 5 or 6 years now, in which time he's made a hard turn right and made a lot of promises to conservatives. While I understand why conservatives think he is a closet liberal, I don't see him being all that moderate.

Honestly I could give two shits about social issues. Worrying about social issues during this election would be worrying about unclogging a drain in a house that's on fire. Of course that's all the lefties will focus on while they are smearing him. Does his stance on abortion and gay marriage REALLY scare you that much? You think the US is going to collapse based on that?

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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby HangOver on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:23 pm

the republican field this election is an even bigger joke than the democratic field was for bush's 2nd term, and i didn't think that was even possible. it's like they went to the nearest clown college and picked the lowest ranking clown wannabes. (except for ron paul but we all know he doesn't [and never did] stand a chance).

if santorum actually gets the nod i think my fucking head will explode. NO ONE with his religious stupidity should EVER be in a position of power. it scares me just thinking about what he'd try to do and how the bible belt would praise and adore him for it. you wanna know what's wrong with our country, start right there. ancient superstitions that have no place in the modern wolrd. of course, since those ancient superstitions were invented to keep stupid people in line, it's not surprising how much it plays in america (especially the bible belt).

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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby buzz on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:52 pm

Couldn't agree with you more, Hang ..

zel
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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby zel on Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:20 pm

Well, thanks for calling me stupid and superstitious, mighty nice of ya.

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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby HangOver on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:11 pm

zel wrote:Well, thanks for calling me stupid and superstitious, mighty nice of ya.


sorry zel. i know you're not stupid. i know it's wrong to lump all religious people together but it just frustrates me when i'm constantly berated (ok, not constantly but still) about not respecting christianity by people who aren't extending me the same courtesy about my atheism. in an ideal world i would never hear a WORD about christ. i respect 100% that christ and his message are very important to you but they mean absolutely nothing to me and i long for a society where that difference is never talked about.

that's why when someone of santorums ridiculous beliefs is being put in a position to potentially affect my daily existence with beliefs that i see as retarded ... i get defensive. i can't help it. he is 100% entitled to believe whatever he wants but he is NOT, IN ANY WAY, entitled to force those beliefs on me. THAT is my main problem with religion. i may be outspoken about my non-religious beliefs but i assure you, if i never heard a word about anyone else's religious beliefs you'd never hear a word about mine.

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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby zel on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:55 pm

I understand your position. I believe but when's the last time I beat you over the head with my bible? :P

I never understood people that berate and shun people who don't believe though. If they're berating you for being Atheist then maybe they need to go back to church because they're not acting right IMO. I don't like the idea of it being taboo to talk about, that's just censorship but I do agree that if someone simply doesn't want to talk about it then you have the right to not be talked to about it and it shouldn't affect your relationship to that person in any way (if they're strangers though, they're still strangers and should GTFO my lawn). This should apply to more than just religion i mean i get tired of people milking me for donations and would LOVE for those calls to stop.

I know how you feel, i get tired of people kicking me intellectually in the face because I believe. I mean what does believing have anything to do with how smart I am or am not?

It's all good though man, i agree that i hate the idea that 1 man could wield power to basically bash me everyday on religious matters because honestly that door swings both ways. Get an overly atheist guy in there that wants to actively and systematically ban religion in any way he can and where would I be? I'd stand beside you all day everyday for your right to be atheist and not be discriminated against because it can just as easily be me in that position. Freedom of religion doesn't mean you HAVE to have a religion but it also doesn't mean NO religion (though I would argue not believing is a religion too, I've met some atheists who could be described as zealots).

Though I honestly don't know much about Santorum or what he is doing to enforce his beliefs on you or anyone else so i'll have to stand by my original decision and vote for myself in the coming elections. :)

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The problem is even though not 100% of Christians are bible pushers, they certainly enable others to be, and worse yet enable elected officials to be theologists first and elected officials second.

i was at a dinner the other day where every single person was a catholic. one was from Rome! every single one of them was disgusted with american religious views and agenda. to everyone else in the world its culture, a heritage. in america its law, its hate, its biggotry. Not every person endorses those agendas, but you enable people who do by standing beside them.

If your not a racist, but your best friend is, and you cover his ass every time saying oh its not his fault, its just his culture or beliefs, you are NOT HELPING, you are enabling and supporting racism.


So how are the Christian radicalists voting this election? cause the US has no conservative party as far as I know.

HangOver
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zel wrote:I know how you feel, i get tired of people kicking me intellectually in the face because I believe. I mean what does believing have anything to do with how smart I am or am not?


i just can't understand how someone that is intelligent can set aside all logic and reason and believe in something so fantastical. i don't FAULT them for it. if the belief in a higher power brings a person comfort and contentment, good for them. for me though i simply can't "believe" something based soley on the fact that it has never been disproved.

zel wrote:It's all good though man, i agree that i hate the idea that 1 man could wield power to basically bash me everyday on religious matters because honestly that door swings both ways. Get an overly atheist guy in there that wants to actively and systematically ban religion in any way he can and where would I be? I'd stand beside you all day everyday for your right to be atheist and not be discriminated against because it can just as easily be me in that position. Freedom of religion doesn't mean you HAVE to have a religion but it also doesn't mean NO religion (though I would argue not believing is a religion too, I've met some atheists who could be described as zealots).


totally agree. i can be pretty loud about my (lack of) beliefs but i'm nothing compared to a lot of athiests who are every bit as bad as bible thumpers. EITHER would be HORRIBLE in office. that's what i meant by wishing that it simply never came up. it should be a non-issue. whether a candidate spends sunday in church is completely irrelevent to the job of running the country. a persons ACTIONS speak MUCH louder than their beliefs. besides, politicians lie for a living. it just goes to show how utterly STUPID people are that they actually BELIEVE the shit these politicians spew year after year.

MaDSpartus wrote:The problem is even though not 100% of Christians are bible pushers, they certainly enable others to be, and worse yet enable elected officials to be theologists first and elected officials second.

i was at a dinner the other day where every single person was a catholic. one was from Rome! every single one of them was disgusted with american religious views and agenda. to everyone else in the world its culture, a heritage. in america its law, its hate, its biggotry. Not every person endorses those agendas, but you enable people who do by standing beside them.

If your not a racist, but your best friend is, and you cover his ass every time saying oh its not his fault, its just his culture or beliefs, you are NOT HELPING, you are enabling and supporting racism.


So how are the Christian radicalists voting this election? cause the US has no conservative party as far as I know.


the problem is that it is a VERY fine line. we're supposed to have the freedom to believe whatever we want to believe. meaning, if someone choses to believe that blacks are inferior to whites, they are entitled to believe that. where do you draw the line on "freedom"?

say what you want about our government but they have MASTERFULLY ensured their position. the VAST majority of the population thinks that voting third party is "wasting your vote". if you speak out about the establishment, you're going to inevitably get a lecture about how it's the rep/dem party that's causing it (depending on the political party of the person doing the lecturing). our government has brilliantly managed to almost perfectly divide the country in half and kept them focused on fighting with each other about who knows best rather than focusing on the REAL problem ... our corrupt government itself.

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hang wrote:i just can't understand how someone that is intelligent can set aside all logic and reason and believe in something so fantastical.
http://vimeo.com/25149893


-PC-Taishar wrote:Honestly I could give two shits about social issues...You think the US is going to collapse based on that?
Collapse? No. But the things that define an open and free society are social policies. What separates us from countries in the middle east which we largely see as backwards? It's not differences in tax policies. And I find it difficult to believe you wouldn't also care if porn and blowjobs got outlawed.

zel wrote:It's all good though man, i agree that i hate the idea that 1 man could wield power to basically bash me everyday on religious matters because honestly that door swings both ways. Get an overly atheist guy in there that wants to actively and systematically ban religion in any way he can and where would I be?
Who exactly is "actively and systematically ban religion"? Most atheists strongly promote the separation of church and state. Many fundamentalist christians however, including Santorum, say and do quite the opposite.

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Aj, I agree with you. Our social freedoms define the idea of "American freedom." Where we differ though is I do not see those freedoms as being under fire. Some of our freedoms ARE under attack though. Imminent domain, freedom to practice religion in public places (school), and things like that. However, like I've said these issues can take a back seat to getting our budget in line. I also firmly believe that if we just shrink government and fix the budget, the social issues will work themselves out. The problem with our government is that it is over legislating. We already have all the freedoms we need or want. The only laws that get passed now are not for OUR freedom it's for corporate or government freedom (ObamaCare comes to mind).

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Re: Which way are you conservatives leaning.

Postby zel on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:19 am

-PC-Taishar wrote: The only laws that get passed now are not for OUR freedom it's for corporate or government freedom (ObamaCare comes to mind).


^This is currently my biggest problem with our gov't and I'd vote for anyone that I thought would actually address it.

Far as why an intelligent person would believe in God how about I pose this: Would an intelligent person believe in Ghosts or does the fact that we can't take pictures of them, or detect them, mean they can't possibly exist? Ditto for demons and such. However myself having my own experiences tells me different and just because i didn't get it on camera doesn't mean it did not occur. My wife, a very intelligent person who studied 6 years for her law degree in Colombia has stories that make mine pale in comparison and even on her most recent trip had some stuff happen that is straight out of a movie. What I find funny is that scientists will spin wonderful arguments about how if it can't be observed we can assume it's not there and yet rewind just 100 years and the amount of discoveries we've made is astounding. So much exists beyond what we once knew and just because we couldn't detect it didn't mean it wasn't there. I mean just in the course of my middle school to now we used to "know for a fact" that the smallest building block of matter is the atom and it is made of neutrons, protons, and electrons, period, end of story and yet now we know the even those parts are made up of smaller parts, quarks, and such. We believe in the Big Bang but aside from some very subtle hints that it may have occurred that way no one ever saw it and we can't recreate it and we can't even explain why it happened but scientists believe it. I don't find it terribly different than believing in God and the idea that they're vastly different amuses me. Anyways I don't know much about physics but i LOVE reading about it and that Morgan Freeman series Through the Wormhole was very well made.

awp-killer wrote:Who exactly is "actively and systematically ban religion"?


It was an example of something equally bad in the opposite direction. I don't give 2 shits about politics and I don't follow anyone's campaign mainly because every time i read a comment thread about it, it reads like two crotchety old men bickering about who lies the best. We really are overly polarized in our elections, to an insane degree and I feel it's to our detriment and intentional that we only have 2 parties. I also don't know of any politicians who are actively and systematically trying to oppress people's right to be atheist and build 'Atheism centers' but if it occurred then i'd have a problem with it. If they tried to make tax concessions that only applied to people who believe in God in some way but not Atheists, i'd have a problem with that. My point is that I believe in letting people believe what they want to believe. Now when thought comes to action there must be laws that protect peoples right to NOT be forced into any belief including nonviolent actions such as harassment/job/loans/permit to build/etc. Nothing like that should be governed by belief. For instance I'm Christian but my opinion of gay marriage is let them get married and claim married filed jointly on their taxes. It doesn't mean I'm gay, or that im not Christian. I also feel that it doesn't exclude them from becoming Christian if they chose to because while it may or may not be a sin to bang another dude, sins can be forgiven otherwise no one is going anywhere. The argument of separation of church and state is often misused by Atheists to mean that public works cannot affirm God in any way which is a corruption of the original intention which was to say that actual churches not have any hand in politics. So I am always wary when an Atheists starts yelling Church and State. If a town wants to have a Bible quote on a public building and it was approved by the majority of the residents of that municipality then it should be allowed and yet an Atheist will spring up and chant Separate Church and State!!! AHHHH!!!!!!! If a group of muslims got together and incorporated a town and the majority of town residents were muslims and they used their tax money to put allah is great on their town hall, WTF ever man. It's their town. The beauty of living in the USA is we have A LOT of space, we should be able to coexist. If you don't like a town, go somewhere else, or start your own. Like those people that made a town called Hell in Michigan.

But i'll go ahead and bow out of this thread respectfully, I really didn't want to argue for/against belief in God. I only wanted to chime in that I'm Christian, please don't bash me for it, cause i love you Godless heathens.... :P lol

Also, sorry for hijacking the thread and if i ranted too much, it's because i spent over 2 hours typing this reply, thats the other reason i don't want to continue :P


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