Give him a fair shake!

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-wicked-toon-X
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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby -wicked-toon-X on Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:17 pm

UN official: Enough evidence to prosecute Rumsfeld for war crimes
http://current.com/items/89758119/un_of ... _video.htm

it's funny, rick sanchez is digging deep to make news.

-PC-Taishar
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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby -PC-Taishar on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:50 pm

See there you go thinking I blindly support republicans again. I don't. McCain was the lesser of two evils IMO. And at least he has a history of being a man of honor. Honestly I don't like MOST of his policies, but in the end all you can really go on is character and McCain has phenomenal character. I liked him as a candidate pre bush and I liked him as a candidate over Obama. He didn't win. Oh well. Closing Gitmo is a bad idea. Whether McCain campaigned for it or not, Obama won, and Obama is doing it.

Also the only people that earn Geneva Convention rights are the signing nations. Afghanistan....Iraq..not among them. They don't grant us those rights nor do they grant those rights to the innocent people they blow up and behead on a daily basis. They have forfeited their rights. I think it's funny. Show me a man who's accused of raping a child and I'll show the multitudes willing to torture him. But show me a prison full of men accused of supporting and carrying out terrorists acts and I'll show you an entire left wing that is all for treating them with kindness and letting them go home.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby awp-killer on Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:15 am

-PC-Taishar wrote:But show me a prison full of men accused of supporting and carrying out terrorists acts and I'll show you an entire left wing that is all for treating them with kindness and letting them go home.


Look who's playing 'strawmen' now.

-PC-Taishar
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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby -PC-Taishar on Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:03 am

Well you didn't see any democrats OPPOSED to closing gitmo did you? Sure my statement was trite, but it had more than a marginal amount of truth to it.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby glitch on Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:18 am

Well just my 2 bits here, but closing Gitmo is a good idea politically. That being said I don't think that the CIA will stop their interrogation techniques, they'll just take it back out of the public spotlight. That's the real blunder of the Bush administration there is that they let it get out in the media and that the Attorney General got caught green lighting it. I'm not fooled for one second that this is new or that it will stop, it just won't be out in the media anymore.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby awp-killer on Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:37 pm

HangOver wrote:they aren't american citizens and thus don't have our rights. they aren't entitled to due process.
You say that as if we should be entitled to different rights, and why? Because the spot of land where we were born? Why should that matter?

HangOver wrote:are there "innocent" people being detained at gitmo? maybe. depends on how you define innocent. i honestly couldn't care any less about any of them.
Why would it depend on "how you define" innocent? They must be here for a reason, therefore none are innocent?

Honestly AJ do you REALLY care about the small percentage of people in there that are innocent and just 'happened' to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
I care about how this policy is ruining our goodwill for billions of people around the world, and for what? A handful of people we accuse of terrorism but are too pussy to even try to prosecute?

The American penal system also has innocent people detained many of them much 'less guilty' than those detained at gitmo. However, you don't hear a big shit storm about that.
I don't like it either, but at least they got a token gesture at justice.

The bottom line is that no system of justice is going to get 100% criminals and 0% innocents.

What system of justice? There is no system. They are just held indefinitely without trial and without Habeas corpus.

But show me a prison full of men accused of supporting and carrying out terrorists acts and I'll show you an entire left wing that is all for treating them with kindness and letting them go home.

Show me a prison full of men accused of supporting and carrying out terrorists acts and I'll show you the other wing that is against bringing them to justice.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby HangOver on Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:25 am

awp-killer wrote:You say that as if we should be entitled to different rights, and why? Because the spot of land where we were born? Why should that matter?

well, if they were human they'd be deserving of human rights. but they aren't human. they're animals and deserve to be treated as such. i'm just shocked PETA hasn't jumped in to defend them.

awp-killer wrote:Why would it depend on "how you define" innocent? They must be here for a reason, therefore none are innocent?

it's not like our military is cruising down the streets of bahgdad scooping up random people and shipping them to gitmo. there's a reason those people are there. they may not have shot at our troops or set an ied on the roadside but aiding the people that do is just as bad. ANY intelligence they can give us serves a purpose.

as i said earlier, this kind of shit isn't new. we've been doing it since this country was founded. it's how the game is played. the problem is that our society has become a bunch of pussified douche canoes and when you add to that the evolution of mass media you get our current situation. it has become almost impossible for our government to hide all their dirty little secrets.

i'm not saying it's right but i'm not saying it's wrong either.

it just is.

-PC-Taishar
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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby -PC-Taishar on Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:52 am

I'm not sure you understand why people go to Gitmo. It's like Robb said. We don't just go grab any jack ass off the street. We grab people that are suspicious. A lot of whom we cannot prosecute. Example: a military age male (a MAM as they are commonly called...ironic I know) found tryin to leave a village that US soldiers were rolling into. This particular MAM had roughly $200,000 dollars. Now you tell me should we detain him? I won't even elaborate on this, I would like to hear how you would handle the situation in your ELE world.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby Cane on Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:55 pm

GITMO still isn't the answer, even in that equation. POI? Surely. If he can't provide documents on how his personal finances reached that high, especially in a village in the middle east, then use his finances to do a "pay to be in jail" circumstance like we've done here in the US, while suffering lovely days with the US interrogators. It's not perfect, but A) We'd not be paying for it, B) Not bad publicity, and C) Detained.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby -PC-Taishar on Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:12 pm

OK here's another conundrum then. If the idea of keeping these guys, and getting information out of them is not a bad one. Then why is it so bad that it is so public? That's what bothers me the most. Most people think what's being done is necessary and even good, but it's those same people that want to make a public stink about it? Hell if Gdub had started procedures on closing gitmo, the left would have busted his balls for it somehow. It just seems nowadays nothing is about what is right and what is wrong. It's all about how to polarize it and make it a big media issue.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby awp-killer on Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:32 pm

-PC-Taishar wrote:Most people think what's being done is necessary and even good, but it's those same people that want to make a public stink about it?
I think the vast majority of people are against torture and for closing gitmo.

Hell if Gdub had started procedures on closing gitmo, the left would have busted his balls for it somehow. It just seems nowadays nothing is about what is right and what is wrong. It's all about how to polarize it and make it a big media issue.

You are speculating. You are taking something that didn't 'happen, then you speculate how liberals would "somehow" do something, and then you are chastising them for it. Who exactly is being divisive?

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby awp-killer on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:44 pm

Holy thread revival!

hang wrote:
awp-killer wrote:Why would it depend on "how you define" innocent? They must be here for a reason, therefore none are innocent?
it's not like our military is cruising down the streets of bahgdad scooping up random people and shipping them to gitmo. there's a reason those people are there. they may not have shot at our troops or set an ied on the roadside but aiding the people that do is just as bad. ANY intelligence they can give us serves a purpose.

Tai wrote:I'm not sure you understand why people go to Gitmo. It's like Robb said. We don't just go grab any jack ass off the street. We grab people that are suspicious. A lot of whom we cannot prosecute.


I friend of mine showed me this video, and it reminded me your level of "proof" needed to label someone a terrorist in gitmo.

For those of you who aren't going to watch the whole thing, Reuters lost a couple of journalists in Iraq a few years ago. They have been demanding the US come clean and release this relevant through a FOIA request. The video is of a couple of trigger-happy gunners who see the journalists, one of which has a camera. One of the gunners (a complete dumbass) asserts that the journalists must be an insurgents with an ak-47s and rpgs. He knows this because he can "see" these things in the pathetic video he is watching, and then they lay waste to everyone there.

Think of all the people in that country that aren't journalists, and don't have big media conglomerates making demands and FOIA requests over their employees. Is this really all the evidence we need to engage in combat?






However you feel about the Democrats, I would rather commit health care than commit war.
Last edited by awp-killer on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Give him a fair shake!

Postby awp-killer on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:09 pm

Fuck, I just saw Buzz's post. Fuck you Buzz! =)

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